The Skeptic's Guide to The Universe

Showing posts with label Richard Dawkins. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Richard Dawkins. Show all posts

Sunday, March 20, 2011

Some notable People I have met face to face.

Some notable people that I have seen or have interacted with over my life. [in no particular order] This doesn't include any concerts of personal speaking engagements to a group unless I had some direct contact with the person. The list is not exhaustive.The last part refers to how I interacted with them.

James Randi – author, Flim Flam, Leading skeptic and magician, originator of $1,000,000 challenge, meal in Springfield, MO

Kathleen Sebelius – former Kansas Insurance Commissioner and Governor, Secretary of Health and Human Services - KSNT-TV

D. J. Grothe – head of JREF and well known skeptical podcaster for “Point of Inquiry” and now “ For Good Reason” Same place, St. Louis Skeptical meetup, Michael Dowd event

Micheal Dowd – author, Thank God For Evolution - Lecture at Unitarian Church, St. Louis
Rebecca Watson – internationally known skeptical podcaster and speaker - Springfield, MO

Sam Singleton – The Atheist Evangelist, Springfield, MO, e-mail Facebook

Victor Stenger – Professor, University of Colorado, Center for Inquiry, author, God The Failed Hypothesis - meal, Springfield, MO

J.T Eberhart – Flying Spaghetti Monster, Missouri State University, Co-organizer of Skepticon - Stayed at his apartment

P.Z. Myers in Springfield, MO
P.Z. Myers – Associate Professor University of Minnesota-Morris, writer - w/ protesters at Skepticon, Special event in the pub.

John Schlitt – singer, Head East, Petra, musician, Christian Speaker - Concert [twice], Life Christian Center, St. Louis, MO

Geoff Moore – Contemporary Christian Musician - after concert, Norman, OK

Ron Dryden – Senior pastor, Cathedral of Praise World Outreach Center, Oklahoma City, OK, new members class, worked at KOKF owned by Dryden

Best selling book by Richard Dawkins.
Richard Dawkins – author, The God Delusion, Climbing Mount Improbable, evolutionary biologist, professor, public speaker - Norman, OK [question] Charlette, NC [question]

Abigal Smith - graduate student in Oklahoma studying the evolution of viruses, especially retroviruses, and how that evolution impacts our health - Evolution debate, Yukon, OK

Jen Peeples - aerospace engineer, former military test pilot, and foxhole atheist - Pridefest, Austin, TX

Don Baker – computer scientist with an interest in evolutionary biology and the nascent science of memetics - Pridefest, Austin, TX

Bob Saget – American stand-up comedian, actor, and television host - KDNL-TV

Jerome Bettis – retired American football halfback who played for the NFL's Los Angeles/St. Louis Rams and Pittsburgh Steelers – KDNL-TV

Bill Clinton – Former President of The United States of America - [twice] Topeka, KS, Oklahoma City, OK

Barack Obama – President of The United States of America - Several times, St. Louis, MO

Claire McCaskill – U.S. Senator, Missouri - Speaking, Victory Party

Russ Carnahan – U.S. Congressman , Missouri – Interview, speech

Fred Phelps – ex-lawyer, Reverend, founder of Westboro Baptist Church - Shawnee County Jail

Nate Phelps – estranged son of Fred Phelps - Clayton High School

Former father-in-law, Steve Abrams
Steve Abrams – former head of Kansas State Board of Education, Kansas Senator, ex son-in-law

Sam Brownback – former U.S Congressman and U.S. Senator; current Kansas Governor interview KSNT-TV, KWCH-TV

Todd Tiahrt – former U.S. Congressman from Kansas - KWCH-TV interview

Henry Hyde – U.S. Congressman-Illinois, interview, KWCH-TV

Joan Finney – First female governor of Kansas - WIBW-TV

Ray Preston – reporter, KMOV-TV - Worked with

Andy Banker – reporter, KTVI-TV - Worked with

Mary Fallin – former Lt. Governor and current Oklahoma Governor - interview, pictures

Joel Olsten – famous pastor from Texas - photos, events

Bob Dole – Former U.S. Senator-Kansas, Former Republican Presidential Canidate - picture with

Dan Baker – Former pastor, musician, president of FFRF - Springfield, MO

Richard Carrier – Historian, author, philosopher - Springfield, MO

Joe Nickell – paranormal investigator - Springfield, MO

Debbie Goddard – Center for Inquiry - Springfield, MO

John Corvino – writer, Moral activist with LGBT, Associate Professor of Philosophy at Wayne State University in Detroit, Michigan - Springfield, MO

Steve "Jake" Jacobs and I; Mr. Wizard?
Steve “Jake” Jacobs – Mr. Wizard IV, Discovery Channel Contributor for “Mythbusters” Director of Informal Science Education - former teacher

Todd Barber – JPL, NASA, California Institute of Technology, Saturn's Cassini mission, Mar's Rovers - mutual friend of my best friend


Stephen Curtis Chapman – Contemporary Christian Singer, Springfield, MO, St. Louis, MO



Tuesday, January 4, 2011

Olsteen update for "A Night of Hope"

From joelolsteen.com
This afternoon I was contacted by Andrea from Lakewood Church. The Houston Megachurch that Olsteen leads. When I asked her about the cost of the ticker she explained that it covered the cost of paying for the Scottrade Center employees and various things such as that. I expressed my view that if this is a message that is good for everyone to hear that provision should be made for making the event free. Andrea explained that they used to have free attendance at these events but when they had an event at Madison Square Garden the facility required that a admission be charged for safety reasons. This was Oct. 19, 2007. So the policy continues with "A Night of Hope" Jan 7th at 7:30PM at the Scottrade Center.

MSG Olsteen Event

According to the MSG website they charged $14.95 for the tickets. Andrea explained that from then on they started using a reserved seat ticket system. Andrea said that they had to use TicketMaster but MSG uses there own system for selling tickets. SO according to the representative for Lakewood Church each public event has been forced to charge an admission ever since. I would have to think that is was more of a unexpected windfall myself. The question I have now to this comment is how did you manage to have events prior to this? How did people attend and how was the facility paid for? The bottom line to that part of this issue is that it seems God provided until they made it to New York City. Since then God's provision has not been sufficient for the ministry.

A second point is that Andrea felt that it was simply a legitimate process of the ministry to charge and that they were nothing different from a Christian Music performer or band charging. First of all, concerning a person that has talent and skills in singing and playing a musical instrument, the performance is an accepted means to pay the people for the show. Andrea said several times that these “people” consider their performances to be a “worship service.” I agree they very well may believe that and to them people there it may be that as well but the actually event is a performance of singing and musical instruments. For this, the convention and traditional process is that a performer that comes to a scheduled event is either paid via doors ticket sales or via sales of products during the show or some other prearranged agreement. This is a reasonable thing to happen. Like plays, sports, movies, and other performing arts, the payment is part of the recognition of the skills of those performing.

A short search on the internet will show you many concerts for Christian performers that decide not to charge. It is that somehow the cost of the event simply went away? I doubt it. I think that the priority of the show was to get the message of their faith out. That is more important than the door charge. But with the draw that Olsteen has I guess he doesn't really have to worry about the message as much as the money. To be sure I am sure that Olsteen isn't going to travel coach or by train to St. Louis, and I am damn sure he isn't going to drive. Olsteen may have a driving licensee but I doubt he ever has to use it. But that is all supposition on my part.

When I was talking to Andrea, I came up with several ideas off the top of my head how to make this event free to the public yet still reserved seating. She seemed to think that was a main reason behind it.
One was to have the tickets distributed through local churches and or business. That way the number of tickets could be set and there would be some accounting for the numbers that were given out. So what is someone take a few they don't need, Isn't Olsteen suppose to rely upon God's provision anyway? The second way was to have a $15 to 25 credit that the person could use on another purchase. Maybe a book or CD or something like that. At least then they could say the price of admission is returned in a free gift to cover the cost. But to be honest that is the weakest way to deal with it. The best way would be to have the people buy the tickets and then once they got in trade the purchased ticket for cash and a admission ticket. But like I told Andrea, who should I be the one solving your problems. You all are the professionals at this not me. These were just two ideas I thought of off the top of my head when talking to Andrea.

Now lets look at the history of evangelical Christianity. But before I do, Andrea mentioned several times how she didn't think that the payment of $15 was that much. I would contend that if it was someone that was in need of “A night of Hope” that $15 dollars could be quite an issue. She did go one to say that they give away free tickets at Joel Olsteen's book signings. SO you can get free Joel Olsteen tickets 12:00pm Friday, Jan 7, 2011 at the Pudd'n Head Books on 37 S. Old Orchard Ave in St. Louis 63116 phone: 314.948.1069. But of course if it is like a typical book signing, you usually have to have a book to get it signed. Preferably from the bookstore you are in. As with most book signings. You have to purchase the book at the location which means spending at least $15 for a book and wait in line to have the Olsteen's sign it.

Cost nothing to have this book signed.
Both times that I went to see Richard Dawkins he would sign any book you had even other items. To be quite honest I was surprised how committed he was to the fans and the willingness, albeit, tired commitment to making sure everyone was taken care of. This was no small crowd. At The University of Oklahoma the lines must have had several hundreds of people with multiple books some people had as many as a dozen books. Plus you didn't have to purchase the books at that event either. To be sure the line so long I am one to wait to the end plus I was talking to a friend, I actually got a second book and waited through the line a second time and he happily signed it for me. When I had him sign “The Greatest Show on Earth” it was in Queen's University in Charlotte, NC and while the crowd was much smaller he still had 300 people in line. Plus bot of his events were free to the public. I guess Richard Dawkins has more faith in people then Joel Olsteen does in his God.

Back to evangelical Christianity, Most of the great revival throughout American and Western history have been attempts by the ones so lead by their convictions to proclaim the word of God to the masses without restriction. To try to “save” as many as possible. The motivation behind this can best be describe as the speaker or speaker is motivated to save these souls from the punishment of Hell. Seems like a good idea so with that as a motivation and shared by others in the revivals the masses hear the message and if all goes as planned they have some new adherents. While I do not share the motivation of these men and woman I do at least understand their desire to spread their beliefs as freely as possibler. To be quite honest. If one isn't willing to share their religious beliefs I would have to question the sincerity of them.

Men like Jonathan Edwards, George Whitfield, preachers of the Great Awakenings of the past centuries up to and including men like Jimmy Swaggart, Oral Roberts, Kenneth Copeland, Binny Hinn and Billy Graham all promoted open and free attendance. They viewed the value of the message too important to restrict those that needed to hear it. Seems they were able to find a way to make it work. Who knows, maybe Joel Olsteen will have the proof of concept of God that I have been looking for but I will not know because I am broke and can't waste that sort of money on something so extravagant.

All this is before, again, we address the sales of books and CDs and other promotional material that the Olsteen's have seemed to mastered several years ago. Also, I would find it hard to believe that a “love offering” is not asked for from the attendee. One has to wonder, how much money does God need? This reminds me of the Great George Carlin's routine about God, “He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bullshit story. Holy Shit!”



Thursday, November 18, 2010

Chapter Eleven; CONGRATULATIONS CHARLES DARWIN part forty



2009 was the 200th anniversary of Charles Darwin birth and also the 150th anniversary of the publishing of On The Origins of Species In 1859. In The United Kingdom the Royal Mint has issued a commemorative two pound coin with the struck pose of Darwin on the right facing across from a portrayal of chimpanzee. On the front of the coin is, of course, the portrait of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II. The coin is issued in a limited edition and you may be able to order on from the website listed below. xxxvii

I also have a Darwin 2009 t-shirt that I wore the last time I saw Richard Dawkins at Queens College in Charlotte, North Carolina on October 14, 2009. I got the t-shirt when I first saw Dawkins at The University of Oklahoma in Norman, OK on March 6, 2009. It has been good to see so many positive commemorations of the publication of Darwin's pivotal work. I have yet to get the £2 coin from the UK or the £10 pound note. I would like to get them both and have them mounted in a display case. But I digress.

However, when I last saw Dawkins, he mentioned something about the commemoration of the 150th year of On the Origins of Species that intelligent design or creationist Ray Comfort was publishing. This seemed rather odd to me. Ray Comfort has printed the keystone work of Darwin. A person that in almost every thing I have seem him produce is in polar opposition to this work of Darwin and evolution. Not to mention the scientific method as well.

The book has a nice cover on it and has a beautiful picture of Darwin on it. It says it is a 150th anniversary issue of the book and at the bottom it says with a special introduction by Ray Comfort. I find this odd but I have not yet read Mr. Comfort's text so I will not comment on that. But what I will say is that Comfort has took ever opportunity he possible can to try to make evolution seem less than factual. The ID advocate has failed in every example he has tried. I am not sure if Comfort is actually convince by these stories he is telling or that he doesn't understand the basic concepts of the science involved in the continual support of the Theory of Evolution or if he really is mentally sick and needs medication, what ever the reason it has clouded his ability to reason and process factual information. It is strange that the person that is one of the most opposed to the ideas and concepts of Darwin's natural selection would spend the money and time to publish the book, according to his website, word for word with only an addition to the beginning of the book.

Adding his comment to the beginning of the book may be to keep Comfort from actually reading the work Darwin put out 150 years ago. I have a feeling there are not going to be many reference such as “refer to page such and such for an example”. But I may be wrong about that. It seems a diluted mind never goes to waste. When the launch date for the book was set on April 22, 2010, I went to Washington University to try to get my hands on the free book. I figured I should be able to have one just as much as the other people around there. But after several contacts in the biological sciences I found out that the book had been distributed the day before, ahead of the announced date for the distribution to occur. Seems that Ray Comfort was willing to add his words to Darwin’s work but was not willing to keep his word to the public as to when the books would be passed out.
xxxvii http://www.royalmint.com/store/BritishBase/D09E.aspx

Coming Next Time;


MORALITY AND MANKIND part forty-one

Sunday, November 14, 2010

Chapter Nine; THE INTELEGENT DESIGN VIEW OF EVOLUTION part thirty-eight



When addressing some of the issues of the fundamentalist view of evolution it is important to identify some key words that they use to try to vilify reasonable scientists and educated people that understand the concepts of evolution and natural selection. From the way the word is used by the intelligent design side it seems that the word “Darwinism” is meant to describe the “believers” in the Theory of Evolution to make it seem more like a radical belief such as astrology or paganism. It is clearly viewed as a philosophical belief instead of an area of fact such as electric theory and thermodynamics. To the Intelligent Design camp, believing in Darwinism is presented as a de facto religious belief. However they would not, for the most part, say that people that believe in the ideas and principles of plumbing to be “Plumbists.”
Words such as Darwinism, Darwinist, Evolutionism, and Evolutionists are used as hot button words to vilify the above groups. Not so much to the groups they are trying to attack but to their base supporters. Such as, These are not scientists, they are Darwinists. The truth of the matter is these are the types of general and specific attacks that the Intelligent design people use in order to motivate their base.
I will be the first to say that many of these people are indeed well educated and speak well about what they present. But unlike myself another reasonable people they are not prepared to have the basis of their views challenged. I have attended and watched several of the debates between Evolution and Intelligent Design. The strength of their attacks is usually in areas where science is not complete or the rehashing of previously discredited models and theories. Just as in any area of discipline there are those that either through poor methods or personal glory will use their position to advance their career. This is the same with those that have been involved in evolutionary research. Rightly so these persons should be exposed for the results they produce. By the same turn the methods of the Intelligent Design camp must be equally willing to lay behind the failed ideas of their ideas when a more sound set of scientific data comes around. The ID adherents will fight tooth and nail to keep their core ideas when the credible scientific facts are placed in front of the ID points. When this happens in the scientific community the result is not a failure of the model just a failure of procedure or ethics. Evolutionary researchers are often the most vocal and first ones to point out faulty research.
This is one reason that ID supporters are able to use the names of prominent evolutionary biologist in trying to support their ID case. They will take the quotes of scientists in the field and use them to show why sample or example XY or Z is not right. The reasonable point of this is to show weakness in the scientific processes and highlighting other discredited scientific mistakes then move on to other models that follow the predictive nature of the existing data. But by failing to offer reasonable models for the existing datum ID supporters only hope to show that the scientific community is trying to use fraud and subterfuge to support otherwise sound scientific methods. Also, many of the attacks on Evolution are not on the science itself but how supporters of ID and creationism have been treated by the legal and scientific community. Failure to offer both “sides” in the public classroom, referring to polls that show many Americans think that a “balanced” presentation of the two sides is fair. But I am sure if you asked the same Americans if Astrology should be given equal time as Astronomy or Alchemy should be given equal time in Chemistry class they would say it has no place in a classroom of science. Do you teach the “Flintstone” method of auto mechanics or the Icarus method of flight design in aerodynamics classes? Of course not and you don't teach the six day creation of Earth in the Biology class.
To the Intelligent Design supporters the debate between the two areas of thought is a chess game. The one that has the points wins. They will site public opinion polls and statements from scientist taken out of context and quotes from prominent persons that are not scientists. Other is trying to use “common sense” allegories to support their ideas such as the “irreducibly complex eye” and the bacterium flagellum, the “irreducibly complex wing and so on and so forth. Just a few highlights on the points I brought up are the eye at 95% productivity is much better then an eye at 50% productivity but both are useful to the animal that has them. Because both are better then 0% productivity of an eye. Concerning the wing. There are many aves that are flightless. I think that is all that needs to be said about that. Their argument implies a purpose of the wing. Humans are the ones that assign purpose not natural selection.
But science doesn't operate that way. Public opinion polls do not produce scientific results and should never be used to determine scientific procedures or results. If all the people on Earth still believed that the Sun rotated around the Earth it still wouldn't make it so. If every scientist was to support the ideas of ID, as some do, it still wouldn't change the facts of evolution. These are truly two different playing fields. Surely they wouldn't have the same views for the efficacy of immunizations and advancements in treatments for disease and and other accepted medical areas. Nor would they question the concepts of computing and electronics that make their life what it is Today. Surely they wouldn't argue against the use of engines and motors for transportation. For the most part these things do not conflict with their world view through their belief system. But when it comes to the evidence of Evolutionary Biology they feel threatened because their view of what life means and why we are here is called into question. They look at it this way, “if the Theory of Evolution is true then my belief system is flawed or even none existence.” But the same scientific principles that the ID supporters accept lead to the answers that Biology and Astronomy, Geology, and other areas of science use to come up with the answers that the ID people use to attack in their challenges.
For the most part the ID supporters do not want answers to these questions. There really is no need for them. They find their answers in their scared book. To the ID supporters, the Bible is a book of science as well as a book of religion. While ID supporters will work hard to find areas of weakness of Evolution they will exercise no effort show how a supernatural action is possible. The will use public opinion and try to use the political process to get their points of view in place in the public schools. Then when scientific discoveries are found that have a vague reference to support their religious view they will use these to shore up their sinking claims of a supernatural creation. Scientific ideas such as Quantum Physics and “the god gene” are a few of the areas that ID supporters will try to twist into their world view.
ID supporters will freely set aside the laws of Physics and other natural laws in which all nature have been shown to follow and conclude that the answers that fall outside the area of acceptable answers, such as the Earth being more than 6000+ years old are not in violation of the laws of nature since a creator is free to operate in any way it sees fit. So what they are saying is that if there is a creator or intelligence behind The Universe that this creator is free to deceive the entire Universe for his own purpose, however they offer no sound natural evidence of this ever happening or how it could happen. Basically they will examine the light from a star or galaxy and the spectrum will show a predictable redshift which the distance can be calculated using a standard formula. When the answer is 7000 light years or greater the ID believer must say from that point and older that the creator is just messing with us but everything up to that point is alright. This is a principle I would love to apply to my financial situation. “I am sorry, Sir you don't have anymore money left.” “No I am not broke I actually have millions of dollars but you just can't see them. But I sure do have them. I just imagine them like I do and they are there ready to spend.”
Recently I saw a set of questions that are suppose to support a creator. It dealt with DNA and the coded sequence. The point asserts that a DNA sequence is a “code” and that a code must be created for it to be a code. This is a misnomer as a definition. It is indeed a code as defined but a code is also the sequence that a snow flake is formed and crystals are formed. Other areas in Physics and chemistry follow similar patterns and codes.
Just because the DNA sequence is an advance molecule and behaves according to an predetermined pattern doesn't mean that the code is anything but a naturally occurring phenomenon. ID supporters look at a naturally occurring pattern and say this must have been created just like a computer code or music written for a song. But they misunderstand the idea of patterns and repetition in nature. One of the most clear examples is that of gravity. In nature, gravity works to hold matter together as it accumulate more matter together. One of the results of this is that celestial bodies gain and spherical form as they gain mass. That is why as a planet or start gains mass we see it as round. Of course even with gravity it takes a certain amount of mass to produce the spherical appearance that we are most familiar with. Objects such as asteroids may not have sufficient mass to have gravity form them into a sphere or other forces may have been at work on them such as collisions with other bodies. This is just one area where natural forces act according to a predictive set of laws discovered by man. The predictive nature of science is the key to which science subscribe and is a bedrock of the experimentation and discoveries that scientists from all over the world depend to make their work possible.
If we lived in a dynamic universe that the rules of Chemistry and Physics were ever changing it would be impossible to operate any equipment or depend on the purpose of medication with any known reliability. But we are able to make predictions of how things work and with this we can work to figure out how things operate in the natural world.
ID supporters will look at the way the universe is and say this is why things are this way because God made them like that. Douglas Adams addressed this many years ago with the water puddle story.i This puddle looks at its world and see how well this hole fits it. It says to itself, Wow, this is a really perfect world look how well this how fits me. It is almost as if the hole was made just for me. As a matter of fact it fits me so well the only way I could fit in it is if it was made for me. As the day goes on the Sun looms higher in the sky and the water evaporates and the holes shrinks. But even as this happens the puddle thinks I know I am special because I have been designed and this hole was made just for me. Surely my creator will save me.
But surely as the day continues, with the Sun shining brightly, the puddle dries up and the puddles last “thought” was, “Oops.”
What I am getting to with this is that the ID people look at how the balance of the orbit of the planet and the ratio of biological chemistry makes this the “perfect” place for life to be on.
To this I have little to say but, “No shit Sherlock.”
You know you go out to the mountains you will see up on the hillside homes made of logs with stilts and other material around the area that makes it work. If you go to the desert you will see building made of concrete, rocks or even adobe bricks. Guess what? These materials are abundant there. Same goes for the Caribbean Sea you will see homes made of palm trees and palm leaves. If life was not possible on Earth I wouldn't be writing this and you wouldn't be reading it. We know that life is possible on Earth because we are proof of it. Not because we are a special creation of a supernatural carpenter. We happen to fit in the right spot at the right time. What this means is, as rare as life may or may not be, Earth was in the right spot at the right time.
If someone wins the lottery it isn't because of all the other times they played that they won it was the time they played that their numbers came up. Though some winners might disagree. Random chance, physical and chemical forces are the “creator” of life on Earth. In a very real sense, Being alive is one of the Universes greatest payoffs. Without us to see the magnificent Universe around us how would we know about the wonders of the world or the amazing worlds in out solar system. We are the only ones to know about the black holes, nebula clouds, quasars and the cosmic dust of the stellar nurseries.
To me this is an amazing thing to know. Of course, it would be nice to live forever and have peace and harmony among all peoples but if you can't get that at least the real world is pretty wonderful to the point of far overshadowing the make believe worlds of man. When it comes to the promises of God and the promise of tomorrow in the Universe, I take the Universe anytime. Yet as much as 45% or Americans still believe in the literal story from the Bible of how life began in the Universe. When you consider the other portion that feel a supernatural entity had some bearing on the way things are in the Universe the numbers that hold to a totally natural method of universal existence are anywhere from eight to fourteen percent. The concept of a outside influence seems to strong yet is so lacking in fact that anyone that would take the time to look at the cause and effects reason for evolutionary biologist to reach their conclusions would be force to abandon all or at least most ideas of anything supernatural influence on the natural universe.
A point of order I would like to bring to the front now. It is not that the people that understand biological evolution have all the answers, just as the studies of cosmological astronomy have found areas of correction over the decades. Things can change and discoveries can be made. Remember, Pluto is no longer a planet anymore, its a dwarf planet. But the most reasonable conclusions are not found in a ancient book of epic stories and drama, but in the halls of science. It can and has been said that it is much more easy to follow an unchallenged and simplistic dogma where one can feel a part of a bigger picture AND feel to possess a unique knowledge that others lack than to bother with the laborious idea of learning. This leads to the view that, “Everyone is wrong but us.” perspective. I have seen people say this over and over again. When I talk to adherents and they bring up a certain point of view special to their faith I will question them with, “You know the Baptists believe this,” or “The Methodists think this,” or the Anglicans believe this.”
The answer is always the same, “Yes, but were are right and they are wrong.” The person may have a Bible verse quote to add, maybe not. They may add a allegoric story. It may just be they feel “we are right” and “they are wrong” and that is it. Even after pointing out a clear example of how their “exception” to the rule is no different that the other adherents “exception” they hold to their unique special knowledge.
Of my more favorite examples of this is concerning baptism. When it comes to Christianity, this is one issue that seems to run through almost all the different denominations. But how it is done is greatly varied. For instance, some of the “older” Christian faiths such as Catholic and Episcopalian, Lutheran and several others say that a baby or child may be baptized even if they are too young to know what is happening to them and what is means. Other Christian faiths say that a person must make a decision to accept Jesus and that getting baptized is something they do after they decide to become a adherent. These are clearly two different perspectives of the same supposed issue. Yet they are still both very different from each other. One a person is not aware of what is happening to them, or really needs to know, the other the person decides when the event will happen to them with their full knowledge of the event.
This is just one part of this crazy act. The second part is how much water is to be used. Again, some feel just getting a persons head wet is enough to make it right and other adherents say you must be submerged totally underwater to be baptized. Again, both quite different actions about an event of the same name coming from the same religion and basically from the same book.
It is not as if, with scientists a person can come to a church that has a certain dogma and say, hey wait a minute we are suppose to be eating whole wheat bread for communion not unleavened bread, or what ever may be served. And show why and then everyone learns that is the correct way. Not at all, many times in history one that would say a thing such as that would end up being arrested, beaten, tortured or murdered. If one was lucky enough to escape such reception to resistance established dogma, they may find themselves founding a denomination of the same religion.
Today, for the most part there is are a few Christian religions that are generally viewed as cults. The best I have been able to find the only two things that makes a cult a cult is a strong central figure to gather around and the number of people that believe in the ideas of the said cult. One exception could be a command from the despotic ruler such as Constantine. Prior to that, Christians were considered a cult by the Romans and Jewish people. Organizations such as Campus Crusade and The Navigators have behavior that can be called cult like. But since they usually adhere to a somewhat generic dogma, it is not viewed with the eyes of suspicion like Jehovah's Witness is or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and other smaller and less well known factions of Christianity. A person never thinks they are in a cult but that tag is usually placed upon them by outside groups. I would guess that a person in a cult for the most part thinks they are doing something really special. With that they might either feel that everyone needs to k now or they have to learn more to become more “spiritual” in their adherence.
Here is an example, Let's say that I have a feeling that the property that others have is not theirs but either mine or “ours” and need a way to convince the others to accept your 'inspired' idea. With the current “respect” or “hands off” treatment religious beliefs have, it would be easy to convince a person that the giving of their property to the group is one good way to show how much God loves you and you love God. Throw in a few Bible verses or even better yet make up a few new ones of your own and soon your be laying in the lap of luxury with hundred or thousands of faithful followers.
Imagine if any one a several prominent atheists or agnostic persons of the recent years were to have a supernatural conversion and leave reason behind. Take Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, Daniel Denett, Rebecca Watson, Penn Jillette, Matthew Dillahunty, Annie Laurie Gaylor, Bill Mayer, P. Z. Meyers and so on. There is many more to name but here is a short list of persons that if they were to allow ill intent to be there motivation they could make more than likely a much better living spouting religious dogma after having a “conversion” experience of some sort that they could tell people about over and over again punctuated with a call for a move of the Holy Spirit in the lives of the people listening to them.
However, I feel rather confident that none of the for mentioned persons or the many persons I have met like them would be able to, in good conscience, to undertake such an endeavor. But believe me, I am sure there are famous person out in the realm of Christian fundamentalism that know the words they speak have no meaning whatsoever other than how often and how loudly they speak them. But their secrets are so closely guarded that even their spouse or friends may not know. It may be a secret that they are unable to share. Even when the reasonable adherents put out books or other media it is almost impossible to overcome the build in bias toward bullshit in the bookstores.
When I purchased Richard Dawkins' book “The Greatest Show on Earth” on September 23, I had to have the person from Hastings bookstore help me locate it. However, if one wanted to find the idiotic books from Glen Beck, Joyce Meyer, Bill O'Reiley or Joel Olsten they were easy to find. They were proudly and prominently displayed in the front of the store or on there own special bookshelf.
As is well documented, James Randi exposed the malicious actions of Peter Popoff in his ministry back in the 1970s and with the help of his friend, Johnny Carson, exposed the charlatan psychic spoon bender Uri Geller. A short search for either one of these persons should reveal the disgraceful way they use people to their own personal benefit, These are just two of the more successful examples of how when a persons actions are held up in the public they loose face and go away forever. But sadly that was not the result of either of those two or ones such as Jimmy Swaggart, Tammy Faye, Robert Tilton, Terry Hornbuckle and countless others that have been disgraced in their ministries only to come back with the same show to get the faithful to hand over their time and money. I look forward to what new ministry Ted Haggard gets into eventually, now that he is cured of homosexuality. But even after these failure of personal conduct that must of their followers and non-believers will never approach the supporters of men and woman like these will say,
Of course, there are those who see all of this upheaval as the work of the enemy. According to Bishop Larry D. McGriff of the Church of the Living God, Pillard Ground and Truth in Dallas, 'The devil doesn't want to see God's work done, so of course he's going to attack the head.'”
It just makes me hit my head when I see comments like that. Which got me to think about why are people so resistant to facts about the failure of people in their religion and the failure of the religion itself. The only answer I could come up with is, education, or the lack there of.
If you ask the typical person what is the value of an education they will say it is priceless or the value cannot be measured. I would disagree with this idea. I would say that education should be free or as cheap as possible. What I mean by this is that a person shouldn't be restricted by the economic factors to educate them since this is one of the most important factors that determine a active civil population. It is a true statement that the basis of understanding of all disciplines have had a erosion of what makes up them different and what applies to which discipline.
The concepts of accounting, language, history, mathematics, grammar, art and science all have reasons that they have certain rules, concepts and procedures based upon facts of logic and reason. Maybe not grammar and art so much but the other disciplines, for the most part you have standard concepts that help the typical student understand what is happening in the subject. The issue with educating the average student is the students think that l earning is hard. The fact is learning is difficult for most students. So the teacher, principal, administrators, school boards continue to make the subjects more easy to pass instead of more east to learn. If one was to take an eight grade math book from the 1930 and compare it to a math book of 2010 it would have many more mathematical concepts with fewer drawings and pictures. Mathematics needs no pictures except for the actual concepts of what is being talked about. It is the place of the book author to give the examples of mathematics or it is it the purpose of the teacher.
I feel the teacher has the primary responsibility for this. But the teachers are a product of a failed system as well. They have been diverted from creative and student based education to having to cram in so much testing material because of “Leave no Child Behind.” From almost every teacher I have talked to about this the LNCB pressure makes the curriculum so rigid that they cannot use the creative models like used to be used only a few years ago. So students are pressured to produce the right answers instead of understanding the disciplines concepts. While getting answers are good, if one understand concepts they can gain the knowledge with continued work.
So we are getting a generation that just wants the answer. Getting things done in a day or hour or half-hour is the time table that most of us are becoming accustomed to. So why should a student spend anything to learn the process of how language and grammar can affect meaning and context of stories. Without knowing that there is a reliable process of determining the distance of an object in the sky by the light that is reflected from it, how can they understand that processes on Earth can occur within that same time frame. Of course, education cannot be done for free and the job that teachers do is important for us all. It is when outside agents such as government and union pressures try to gain control of the students and teachers it is only a lose-lose situation.
The result is higher costs and lower knowledge gained. To be honest I would rather have a student that understands the concepts and principles of a subjects but has trouble with the details over someone that is able to determine the right answers without knowing why the answers are what they are. Without this understanding, the students are graduated to the population reading and willing to accept answers that the “authorities” or “professionals” provide them. Another generation ready to be consumers and accept the cause de jour.

xxxvi http://www.biota.org/people/douglasadams/

Coming Next Time;


ALL NATURAL INGREDIENTS part thirty-nine

Wednesday, November 3, 2010

Chapter Eight; HUMANIST POINT OF VIEW part thirty



But as I have said before, since non-adherents do not have a dogma we really have no need to meet together or organize. But I have a feeling that will change as we fight through the courts to return our nation to the secular nation that it was founded as. People seem to be tiring of the rules and control of dogma and want to be good peaceful people living with one another. Helping out where we can and staying out of the way when we should. In the past few years many voices of the non-believing nation have began to speak up. Many of these have found a new audience in the Internet and podcasts. But also more gatherings are being organized around the country.
While most Christian Americans have no problem with having beer and liquor sales regulated according to the wishes of the dominate fundamental Christian view, they would be, rightly so, up in arms if the laws of Islam (shirea) were to be introduced as laws in America. Today, Muslim cab drivers in New York City are fighting for the right not to carry a person that has been drinking or carrying unopened alcohol with them. This goes in the face of the “drink responsible” programs that have been promoted across this nation for years.
In Sweden recently, young women are brutally beaten and forcible raped by sick cruel Muslim men that think that just because a women on planet earth doesn't dress the way they think she should she has no rights and is fair game to be sexually assaulted. This issue has gone as far in Sweden at to be called a Muslim rape wave.

From the Assyrian International News Agency dated December 15, 2005:

“In Oslo, Norway, immigrants were involved in two out of three rape charges in 2001. The numbers in Denmark were the same, and even higher in the city of Copenhagen with three out of four rape charges. Sweden has a larger immigrant, including Muslim, population than any other country in northern Europe. The numbers there are likely to be at least as bad as with its Scandinavian neighbors. The actual number is thus probably even higher than what the authorities are reporting now, as it doesn't include second generation immigrants. Lawyer Ann Christine Hjelm, who has investigated violent crimes in Svea High Court, found that 85 per cent of the convicted rapists were born on foreign soil or by foreign parents.”

The story goes on to relay how the Muslim men feel about how the woman are treated:

“Some Muslim immigrants admit their bias quite openly. An Islamic Mufti in Copenhagen sparked a political outcry after publicly declaring that women who refuse to wear headscarves are "asking for rape." Apparently, he's not the only one thinking this way. "It is not as wrong raping a Swedish girl as raping an Arab girl," says Hamid. "The Swedish girl gets a lot of help afterwards, and she had probably fucked before, anyway. But the Arab girl will get problems with her family. For her, being raped is a source of shame. It is important that she retains her virginity until she marries."

When I read something like this, it actually makes me want to return kind for kind retaliation upon these so called men. If these Muslims, living inside these countries, do not wish to see woman dress as she wishes, then they should move to a country that shares their views. Otherwise they should be subjected to the same brutal treatment that has happened to these women. I would have little problem with fathers, mothers, sisters, brother, friends and the victims themselves, inflicting a penalty on these Muslim men that have no respect for women.
While the rape wave issue is religiously based, in the town I live in Oklahoma I was told that on the local public transportation a person cannot be taken to or from a bar or transport a person that has been shopping and has any alcohol with them. This seems to me to be a way to encourage a person to act irresponsibly concerning drinking. After all why should the state have any issue with a person acting responsible? These are state laws and can affect the funding of the local transportation service if they are violated. This is a odd reflection in Oklahoma of what the Muslin New York City cab drivers were asking for. Maybe they should move to Oklahoma. In the past few months I have seen every sort of an attempt to create the State of Oklahoma in to an actual theocracy. Sally Kern is a Representative here and has proposed a Proclamation for Morality. it claims among other things,
“WHEREAS, this nation has become a world leader in promoting abortion, pornography, same sex marriage, sex trafficking, divorce, illegitimate births, child abuse, and many other forms of debauchery”
Kern seems to think that same sex marriage is the same as child abuse and sex trafficking and who the hell knows what is debauchery to her. As far as illegitimate births, Kern needs to endorse the teaching of sex education that actually prevents girls from getting pregnant and not the failed pipe dream of “just say no to your natural desires”.
In the past few years, stone tablets of the 10 commandments have been placed on county courthouse grounds in Haskell County, Oklahoma. An attempt was made to prohibit Professor Richard Dawkins from speaking as a guest of the University of Oklahoma to an audience. There was passed a law and signed by the Governor that is authorized to place a monument to the 10 commandments on the Statehouse grounds. Then again Representative Sally Kern wants to pass a Proclamation of Morality which also states in part:
“NOW THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED that we the undersigned elected officials of the people of Oklahoma, religious leaders and citizens of the State of Oklahoma, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world, solemnly declare that the HOPE of the great State of Oklahoma and of these United States, rests upon the Principles of Religion and Morality as put forth in the HOLY BIBLE

It is amazing to me that the religious adherents are either so unable or unwilling to control their own nature and behavior according to their self imposed rules of dogma and religion that they feel compelled to pressure lawmakers into passing legislation that reflect their personal dogma. It seems the way these pious and religious people are able to control their own actions is to also control the actions and desires of people who could careless about their beliefs. However, if an other religious group was to force their views on them they would be the first to cry for freedom from religion instead of integrating more of them.
The Native American tribes in many parts of the country have the ability to establish casinos on land that is owned by the tribe. So by default that basically makes gambling legal in Oklahoma as well as many other states where the state itself doesn't allow gambling. I have been to casinos several times. My first time to go to a legal casino in the United States was in 1994 in Las Vegas. I was doing well at blackjack. I won some money the first part of the night and then lost all I won plus the $80 I came to play with. I did know I needed to get back to Kansas and that I needed the money to be able to make the trip so I put that aside plus money need for food and hotels. I was trying to be responsible for my actions. After going up so big that first night them losing it all plus even more I had decided that I am not very good at gambling. So I basically gave it up. [lesson learned Las Vegas, thanks]
I have known people that go almost every week to casinos and will win thousands of dollars and then lose the same amount the following week. I guess if they can afford the fluctuation in their funds that is fine. I cannot, so I prefer not to risk it. But I am still a supporter of casinos.
Because of this I have decided for my own behavior that this activity is not for me. No lawmaker had to regulate my behavior, not dogma had to convert me to its system of belief. Simple experience shows me that gambling is something that I cannot win and will only come up on the short side. I do still indulge on the occasional lottery ticket. [I haven't won yet.]
Because of this, I don't see any reason to have laws that restrict how you can perform otherwise legal activities. It is one thing to have a law in place for drinking and driving. It is quite a whole other thing to have taken the right away from an adult to choose for themselves how to regulate their behavior. I am all for enforcement of laws that keep people that are under the influence of medications and legal substances from driving. [I wonder how many of these local prohibitions on drinking would be in place if the only way they could pass were for the churches to be shut done in the same municipality or counties?]
If a person doesn't want to have liquor, don't drink, if I person doesn't like abortion, don't have one, if a person doesn't like to smoke, then don't. If a person doesn't want caffeine, please have a root beer. I certainly recognize that some people have addictions to such activities and need help but that is a different situation than letting otherwise reasonable and able people from acting in a manor that suits their desires. The religious right some times fail to recall that our nations independence was sought with the idea of rights of liberty, life and the pursuit of happiness. As Benjamin Franklin said in Poor Richard's Almanack, (sic) “The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason.” These ideas are driven by the individual not the collective body of America.
When it comes to religious laws in America some of the biggest ones that are de fato in place are the closing of public buildings and businesses on Sunday morning or all day and alcohol and smoking laws. There is not regular mail delivery on Sunday. The reason implied or driven by ordinances for business being close serves the purpose of making sure people have the ability to attend church without being encumbered with it affecting their income.
In many places in America one cannot buy a car on Sunday. I fail to see any religious based logic in that. Certainly there cannot be a reason to have a law to prohibit such “evil” activities.
Having lived and traveled in many states I find the inconsistencies with liquor laws to be quite fascinating and nearly incomprehensibly. These attempts by a moral majority to police a persons behavior are truly the result of an attempt to force religious morality upon a group of people that do not hold their view. The idea that a person is not free to decide for themselves is an insult to an adult. I could write a great deal about the different laws themselves but I will touch on a few of the more bizarre ones.
Keep in mind, any of these business that do these things based upon their personal choice is great. I am talking about either direct governmental or social pressure that are laws of the community.
On alcohol, In Oklahoma you cannot by any wine or liquor at any store on a Sunday. No bar can serve any liquor on a Sunday. No beer greater than 3.2% abw can be sold cold. In Texas, North Carolina and New Mexico a person by themselves cannot purchase a pitcher of beer in a bar. However a person can purchase several beers at one time, in some states. The issue with this morality by legislation has got to be one of the most futile attempts to try to regulate the behavior of citizens. These are all related to the desire to have a moral code forced upon people that may have no desire of belief in that said code.
To better explain this situation would be to turn the tables on those that wish to push their morality on the general population. So here are some fantastical laws governing religion.
• Must be at least 18 or older to attend a church.
• Church only on Sundays.
• No display of public religiosity.
• No open Bibles or religious books in public places.
• Other than in a church or your home, religion cannot be practiced anywhere else.
• You can only attend church at state approved churches.
• It is illegal to preach to or let children under 18 read the Bible or other religious material.
• Any person praying in public will be held at least 8 hours in a non-praying cell.
• Multiple violations will result in loss of your driver's license.
• Pastors on duty must cut a person off from religion if they have had too much.
• Preaching and driving strictly forbidden.

On views concerning liquor and tobacco I tend toward a Libertarian view, this would include the decriminalization of marijuana. I find letting out these person that have had only convictions related to the laws concerning marijuana possession and such to be a good way to ease up the high cost of housing non-violent offenders and have their record expunged of the offensive.
June of 2009 The State of California proposed to legalize marijuana to help ease the budget crisis that they are in. The measure would come up for a vote in 2010. The taxing of cannabis would produce millions of dollars for the state while taking dollars for law enforcement from arresting otherwise law-abiding citizens and putting them in place for more effective uses. California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger Said that he would welcome debate on the issue but has as of yet to cross the line to promote the wholesale legalization of the naturally fast growing plant. It is predicted that the legal sale and use of marijuana in the State of California could produce up to 1.3 billion dollars of additional revenue for the state budget.
Of course this set the religious right on edge. But even among the more conservative states the frustration of dealing with the overrun of dealing with the cost of enforcing the marijuana laws. The status quo of the religious fundamentalist is falling into the minority of this view and if the voice of the people is to be heard, then the complete legalization of marijuana is just a matter of time. Oddly enough, the people that have or had used marijuana in the past sound quite reasonable when talking about the issue and the ones that are opposed to the legalization of pot are the ones that seem “high” when you hear what they say.
I am thankful to President Barack Obama for deciding not to prosecute persons that are in line with state laws concerning medical marijuana use. It will be even better when the Federal Government decides not to pursue this issue whatsoever. While I disagree with motorcycle helmet laws and seat buckle laws I would be hard pressed to show a connect for these libertarian issue to be related to religion.
It is still odd that the pace of legalization is taking such a long time. It would be hard to imagine how different the country would be if Prohibition was still in place after 72 years, Ending in 1991 instead of 1933.
I recently read a comment on a forum about the legalization of marijuana. The poster wrote a comment to the effect as this, “Do you think the drug dealers are going to just turn over their plants and become law abiding citizens? Of course not.”
This person is in need of a history lesson. When President Franklin D. Roosevelt passed the law to allow beer to be produced it wasn't the illegal companies that benefited but the legal ones. But it did stop the resources of law enforcement from having to deal with all the massive law enforcement efforts to prohibit the use of alcohol. Those that were the gangsters went into other forms of crime to deal in, such as marijuana and cocaine. The legitimate businesses were the ones that benefited from the repeal and the government got the much needed tax revenue of the legal products and a break on the overwhelming pressure that law enforcement was dealing with to keep alcohol out of the country.


Coming Next Time;

SPORTS AND RELIGION part thirty-one

Friday, October 22, 2010

Chapter Six; HOW THE 10 COMMANDMENTS CAME TO OKLAHOMA part twenty three




On May 18, 2009 Oklahoma Governor Brad Henry signed HB 1330 which allows for the state to put on a privately funded monument of the 10 Commandments on the statehouse grounds. This bill was passed overwhelming by both houses of the Oklahoma statehouse. In the Senate there were twenty state senators that sponsored the bill and in the house ten sponsors were found.
On May 28, 2009 after Gov. Henry signed the bill into law. Jim Huff with Americans United for the separation of church and state-Oklahoma spoke at a meeting in my town of Ponca City, Oklahoma. The meeting was organized by the Kay County Democrats and held at a local church. About 50 or so people attended the lecture and Mr. Huff helped to explain what this means for Oklahoma and what some of the repercussion might be.
Huff went through several steps of the history of religious freedom and the Constitution of the United States and the Oklahoma State Constitution. He made a point of highlighting the pertinent facts pertaining to the issue of the separation of religion from the secular government.
First he referred to to Article six of the Constitution where no religious test would be required for any public office or trust. This is the only part in the actual Constitution that mentions anything about religion and it is clearly a prohibition of using religion for a standard to hold public office.
Then second he went over Article I of the Bill of Rights about not establishing a religion or prohibiting the free exercise of. He went on to explain this is the area that SCOTUS had found in 1947 by Justice Hugo Black about the establishment clause. Wrapping up with the US Constitution was Amendment XIV, which basically places state laws subservient to Federal law.
Finally in the Oklahoma Constitution section 11-5, “No public money or property shall ever be appropriated, applied, donated, or used, directly or indirectly, for the use, benefit, or support of any sect, church, denomination, or system of religion, or for the use benefit, or support of any priest, preacher, minister, or other religious teacher or dignitary, or sectarian institution as such.”
This part of the Oklahoma Constitution in itself should be clear enough to have the Oklahoma state legislators fail to take actions on this bill. They had acted in direct violation of the Constitution they had took and oath to support and defend.
As the federal law in this district of the Federal Courts there is a case that has been awaiting a ruling with a similar monument on Haskell County courthouse grounds in Stigler, Oklahoma. This case has been heard by the Federal Court of Appeals in Denver, Colorado and the ruling was made June 8, 2009.
Both the Haskell County 10 Commandments and the 10 Commandments at the Oklahoma Statehouse are paid for by private donations.
As of June 8, 2009 the United States District 10 Court of Appeals ruled that the Haskell County 10 Commandments which is part of a historical display, "has the primary effect of endorsing religion" when taken in context with the small community of Stigler, Okla. They ruled the display unconstitutional.
According to the Norman Transcript; "Whoever was the judge in this, I feel sorry for him on Judgment Day," said Haskell County Commissioner Mitch Worsham, who represents the county where the courthouse and monument is located. "We're not going to take it down."
The three judge federal court decided unanimously that the way the display was erected, supported and dedicated all indicated that the monument was design to promote Christianity. One county commissioner said at the time of the dedication, "That's what we're trying to live by, that right there. The good Lord died for me."
This decision moves the case back “to Muskogee, Okla.-based U.S. District Judge Ronald A. White so he can issue a new ruling consistent with the District 10 ruling. In August 2006, White rejected arguments that the monument promotes Christianity at the expense of other religions.”
Several times people at the meeting with Huff it was asked what is wrong with the 10 Commandments? I guess they meant what is wrong about having them on the statehouse ground? At least that is how those of us that responded to a women's questions took them to mean.
The comment I made on a forum about the June 8, 2009 ruling on the 10 Commandments can answer that question as well as anything for me, “What purpose does such an idea as, " No other Gods but me" have in a pluralistic society? What is the purpose of "Make no Graven Images"? Who will be the moderator to determine when a mother of father is or is not "honored"? What will happen to our system of economy is no one desire the things that they do not already possess? What would be the penalty of violation of these commandments? There is nothing good or worthwhile to consider in the 10 Commandments. It is not as if prior to them being made into a compilation that the idea had not existed before in human society.
On these same forum there are those that try to defend the ideas and concepts of the 10 Commandment and inadvertently they will reply with answer such as, “do not lie, do not kill, do not steal. Yeah, what good are those commandments.
To this I have several points to make. The first being that no one argues the value of respecting personal space and property and honestly is indeed a virtue that one should encourage. Second, the most common examples supporters of the 10 Commandments cite are not the first four but the ones that deal with human to human interaction. Additionally, as far as the human to human commandments, there is not need to extol these values as some religious expression. Society doesn't function if murder, stealing, infidelity, disrespect and lying are rampant. There are plenty of examples in the animal kingdom that show these virtues as being helpful without the presence of any divine in their mists. Concerning the last two or one commandments, depending on your version, to covet an item or idea is the very basis of human endeavor and our driving force for almost everything in history.
How would the Egyptians build the great works of their civilization with out a desire to have more than what they had before? How would the discovery of the Americas have happen if there wasn't a desire for trade and to spread religion. Where would any religion be if there wasn't a desire to have others join in their belief system. So ever adherent that wants others to follow their belief is guilty of coveting the souls of those that are not currently following what said adherent believes.
Odd bit it is that the ones that most want to have the secular government place the 10 Commandments on state property are guilty of violating at least one if not two of the very commandments that they so extol. Not too mention that the very item itself is a “graven” image.
Another comment mentioned several times at the seminar was that America was founded as a Christian nation. Our nation was not founded as a Christian nation it was founded as a secular nation. The people were given the freedom to select according to their conscience what they choose to believe about the supernatural or to hold any belief in it at all without it having affect upon them as citizens of The United States of America.
People that believe that the 10 Commandments should be placed on public property and other state endorsed religious actions should be taken by our government are a disgrace to the principles to which this nation was founded. The very ideas of liberty and justice and freedom for all are as foreign to them as the people of Nepal are to me. I know they exist but I have little idea about what they do.
Keep in mind it was the Founding Fathers that put Article VI in The Constitution of The United States and ratified Amendment I [June 9, 1789] and ratified the Treaty of Tripoli in June 7, 1797 which states that The United States is not a a Christian nation.
To this, I would say that the 10 commandments represent a religion and are in violation of both the Oklahoma and United States constitutions. As an atheist, if people want to paste the 10 Commandments on private property, please feel free but please obey the laws and keep religion out of the secular government.
I contacted my local state Representative, Senator and the Oklahoma Governor to express my view to not have the bill passed prior, to the passage by each group. In addition, I tried to get as many like minded people to contact their local state representatives as well. I was told by my State Representative that he would not vote for the bill. However when the bill was voted on he did indeed vote for the bill. House Bill 1330 did pass the Oklahoma House of Representatives by a vote of 83-2. A clear showing of the power of the religiously minded in my state.
Calling my representative, of course, was to no avail. What can you say about a state that tried to get Richard Dawkins banned from giving a lecture as a guest of the Zoology Department of the University of Oklahoma, June 6, 2009.
On the grounds of the Capitol of Texas, SCOTUS upheld the right of Texas to have the 10 Commandments displayed. I have viewed this monument and it is placed very close to the statehouse along with more than twenty other monuments including ones to Texas school children, Lady Bird Johnson, Civil War veterans, and a memorial to the men of the Alamo. SCOTUS said that since the 10 Commandments were part of a larger display that the meaning of them purely as a religious expression was not establishing a state religion.
What this shows people that care about individual freedom and protecting The Constitution is that the radical religious right is trying hard to make this a monotheistic country. Often have I heard people say this is a “Christian Nation.” it seems to me that this is a recent cultural phenomenon as this idea would be perverse in the first part of our nation's history. Too be honest it seems to only be prevalent since the mid-eighties.
I often try to educate people about the Treaty of Tripoli that was ratified by the United States Senate on June 7, 1797 during the period that most of our Founding Fathers were still very much involved in the early nation.
Here is the part of the treaty that deals with this issue:
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity,(sic) of Musselmen;(sic) and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan (sic) nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
This is also referenced in the Marine Corps Hymn when it refers to, “From the Halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli”
Most of the adherents to religion do not want to hear these factual citation of our nations history or other examples of how the Pledge of Allegiance was written without the phrase “under God” in it or how “In God We Trust” was added to our currency in 1957. If you read this link from the Federal Reserve, it leaves no doubt whatsoever that the purpose was directly related to Christianity. To most Christian adherents, the very idea of having religion in the public forum is not only right but is a right they have as Christians, not so much as Americans.
Fundamentalists cite examples of how when prayer was taken out of public schools in 1963, test scores and behavior problems began to be adversely affected. But they fail to point out that the issues they are talking about were on the rise prior to these actions being taken by SCOTUS. One could use any historical point of reference to show a cause and effect relationship. One could just as easily say that after evangelist Billy Graham gain national prominence that the test scores of American children began to decline. One could say after the space program began the rate of juvenile delinquency increased. Such examples fail to establish a cause and effect relationship for their claims, but it surely can be said.

“One might just as well credit the lack of prayer with the great advances that have taken place since the 1962 and 1963 decisions on prayer. Look at the leap in civil liberties, equality, environmental awareness, women's rights, science, technology and medicine! The polio scare is over. Fountains, buses, schools are no longer segregated by law. We've made great strides in medical treatment. We have VCRs (DVDs, BlueRay, etc) and the computer chip. The Cold War has ended! Who would turn the clock back?”

Any of the following events could be assigned a similar cause and effect relation that the advocates of school prayer propose for the alleged decline in school behavior and test score.

• Pope John XXIII dies; Pope Paul VI is elected
• 250,000 Americans march for Civil Rights in Washington
• Kennedy assassinated in Dallas
• Lee Harvey Oswald arrested
• Lyndon Johnson takes Presidential Oath of Office
• Soviet missiles stay out of Cuba; Troops will stay
• N.Y. newspaper's labor strike for 114 days
• Supreme Court decides poor must have lawyers
• Kennedy sends troops to calm Alabama civil unrest
• Soviet Union puts first women in space
• Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s 'I Have a Dream' speech

All these events happened in 1963 and have as much bearing upon the changes in public school test scores and behavior problems as any decision by SCOTUS. I will show some of the alleged cause and effect relationships that the public school prayer advocates cite in their arguments for public school prayer.
Teenage pregnancy rates have gone up 500% since 1962. Unmarried mothers have risen dramatically since 1962. [The divorce Rate is so high that many young children don't really understand what a family is.](sic) Violent Crimes have risen steadily since the early 60's, and our prison system is bursting at the seams.(with born again Christians) The SAT scores have steadily declined each year for 18 straight years since 1962 and continue to decline or be low. (Wouldn't that be more than 18 years? That just takes us to 1980. I am sure the writer of this could have updated it to at least 1994 or so.) We once had the best school system in the world, and we are now ranked about 15th among the industrialized nations. This is despite us spending more money then any other nation in the world on our school system.i

None of these statistics are cited or supported by any references though they are expressed as being facts. While I certainly make assumptions of data and reports I have heard over time, these are not statistics listed with verifiable data. I have looked for information to support this 600% increase from several sources including the US Census Department and the Center for Disease Control. Never has a listing for anything on line that would support the 600% increase over any period of time has been found to date. As far as the United States being ranked 15th among industrialized nations. The last report done was by the Organization for Cooperation released September 2005 which ranked the United States 9th with persons 25 to 34 with a high school degree and 7th for persons 25 to 35 with college degrees. Again it is easy to make up any sort of numbers or statements that you wish but if you really want to be believed, show your work, just like in math class. The best way to deal with a number quoting person is to simply say, “prove it.” I will say that I have recently heard some new numbers as our ranks in the world but I would have to look deeper into that as the cause. I surely cannot find the removal of prayer as a strong contender for this drop.
The rise of the great evangelical crusaders and movements that began in the 1950s and 1960s led by such people and continued by people as Billy Graham, Bill Bright, Marilyn Hickey, Bill Gothard, Pat Roberts, Joyce Meyers, Oral Roberts, Jerry Falwell, Earnest Angely, Jimmy Swaggart, Peter Popoff, Jim and Tammy Fay Baker, and many many more can be used to show the same cause and effect relationship that is asserted that the issues with schools was caused and is caused by these people.
The issue with the advocates of public school prayer, they fail to make a cause and effect relationship and without that they only have anecdotal arguments. Maybe they will do some actual research and find that there are many other factors that contribute to the recent decline in standardized test scores. The first one I would look at is the failure of the parents demanding higher account ability in the schools. This seems to me a much more reasonable factor other than a one minute mantra recited by rote at the beginning of the school day.

Coming Next Time:
 Chapter Seven;
HUMANS IN THE MIST part twenty five

Wednesday, July 14, 2010

Chapter Four; SOME THOUGHTS FROM THE GOD DELUSION part eleven



Observation and thoughts derived from the book The God Delusion: Chapter 10, Dawkins wrote the statement that 96 percent of the population of the United States thinks that they will survive their own death. If one was to say that should I jump off this 12 story building unaided, after I hit the bottom of the pavement, I will survive that fall. Any reasonable person would have no other recourse but to find the nearest phone and call 911 for emergency services. Because my statement would surely reflect a total disconnect to the reality of the Universe. But, if one has a belief in a dogma that tells them that no matter what death they face, they will survive their death, based upon a religious dogma. The general population in the United States will think that they are a person of deeply held religious beliefs.
To even believe to survive after one ’s own death when no known physical reality, experiment or study can support or attest to that possibility, is surely the zenith of a person with a grand delusion. Even marginalized concepts, such as ghosts, trolls, spirits, angels and so forth, boarder on the absurd when one is dealing with the reality of their own life. I tried to come up with some sort of comparison, which would be a simile with that concept. The closest one I could come up with was, if someone believed that Alice in Wonderland was based upon eyewitness evidence instead of Lewis Carroll's imagination. Even this is a poor example to show the level of self deception and blind faith one must go through in order to accept such an absurd premise. I really cannot imagine a more bizarre and unbelievable concept. But as Douglas Adams once wrote, [to paraphrase] The more unbelievable the idea is, the more virtuous the person is that believes it or as Richard Dawkins wrote, “Indeed, they may feel that the less evidence there is, the more virtuous the belief.” I assume that must have been the idea behind The Electric Monk idea in Adams' writings.
Other observations and views from The God Delusion. The premise that life originated on Earth, is one that is abiogenisis. While no one can for sure know the way life began on Earth, the evidence that there is life on Earth leads one to investigate with scientific means, as to what life is and how long it has been on the planet. These areas are supported by many areas of scientific research including: Biology, Physics, Chemistry, paleontology, Plate tectonics, Molecular Biology, archeology, genetics, climatology, astronomy, cosmology and many other disciplines of scientific research.
One question that I have not seen addressed or answered was on a multi-genesis of life on Earth. When dealing with the probability of life and the processes that are needed to be in place for it to occur through chemical and physical forces, one must conclude that the possibility for more than one origin of life on Earth is as likely as a single source of life on Earth.
I bring this point up not as a scientist but as a layman that finds this question interesting. Is it possible that the origins of, say, plants and animals and fungus , all began with different points of origins and that the most convenient way to transfer molecular information is in the form of DNA nucleotides? I don't know and I have not heard this addressed. Could DNA simply be the “Lego blocks” of the biological universe and on our planet it makes for the most convenient way to have life.
I did attend a lecture of Richard Dawkins in Norman, OK and asked him this very question. I have looked for the video on line , and as of the date of this writing, it is not available. I do know that it was recorded.

He made the allegory that when you lose your keys you look under the lamp post because that is where the light is. (This relates that there is the possibility that other life may have evolved and died out prior to it taking foothold. We can only find something in the areas where we are able to examine.) But, there is still a possibility that non DNA based life is on Earth. A chance but very remote. There isn't any chemical or physical reason why it cannot happen.

He mentioned the work of two scientists, but I do not recall their names. The result of the research touched upon the view that DNA research had determined once DNA was established, the four chain nucleotides were "'frozen in place." This indicates that since all life known on Earth is based upon the four series that the conclusion is that all known life had a common origin. [xvii]
Dawkins mentioned that it is possible that life could be based upon some other set of building blocks, even here on Earth. This was toward the end of his answer. But this really points to discovery of life extra-terrestrial. As of right now, we only have life on Earth to compare life to.
He didn't give a "yes" or "no" answer, as a good scientist should avoid, but the conclusion I gather is: Yes there could have been multi-origins of life, but if they did, they were evolutionary dead ends or those organisms became food for the current set of DNA based life. As far as Biology and other science “know”, only DNA based life is known to exist in The Universe.
The point went something like this. Regardless of how common or rare life is, it has happened at least one time. (this got a chuckle from the audience) "We know this because we are here." But depending on the yet to be discovered million and millions of stars and yet undiscovered planets to find life on, this will lead to an answer to this type of question.
In another part of the lecture, Dawkins said there are also countless questions that we do not have answers to. This seems to be one that we can ask but not answer from our limited place in space and time. Thankfully, science looks like it will have plenty of work ahead of it for many years to come.

What is the evidence that life is formed from a single source? Isn't it DNA itself? I know about the mapping of genome and the matching of similar genes in different species. But isn't that also the most convenient way for life to exist? Again to refer to Douglas Adams, Isn't this hole nicely suited to me, so “says” the water held in said puddle.
Simply put, DNA may be the most convenient way for life to sustain itself regardless of what form it took in basic form. Plants, animals and fungus all could be part of a cosmic factory that made several attempts at life and only two or three were sustained with the natural forces of the planet working both for and against life. As far as the planet Earth goes, there is no reason to have life on it than any other planet. There were millions of years with no life on Earth and there will be millions of years in the future that no life will be on Earth. We just got lucky that our time is now. Imagine the cosmic queue for life yet to come. There is no divine plan for creation of anything that is alive. There is life because there is life. We beat the odds.
So what drives the forces of life on Earth. It could be the basic idea that life itself is an oddity and that life seeks to sustain itself because it “knows” it has no right to exist. The truth of the matter is rocks , water, metals and other non-living things on Earth have the “right” to be here well before any bacteria, fish, bird, shrub or tree do. For the inorganic and non living are what most of the known universe is made up of. They are the majority.
Now the exclusivity of life is based upon all the known places we know life exists, namely Earth. There has been recent evidence that life may have existed on ancient Mars and even the possibility that it could currently exist subsurface on the Mars. But in view of the inability to analyze any samples of what life may be on Mars, the comparison to life on Earth must remain , at best, a subject of conjecture and preliminary data. There has even been hypothesis put forth for life on other places in our solar system. One of the more bizarre ones is for floating life in the clouds of Venus. That indeed would be a most usual life form. I feel that one is at best a wish.
Why is this question relevant? I would like to try to address this since the idea seems to be among homo sapiens that we somehow have a privileged or special place among the life on this planet. What is the chance that life would happen on Earth? There were indeed many overwhelming factors that had to be overcome for just the change of life to occur. Based upon calculations from Drake's Equation, [xviii] one could figure that the chance of life to occur starts in the billion to one or even trillion to one. This, of course, is a high hurdle for life to overcome. But with each step life did indeed make the next step and we are here, alive on this planet, in this solar system, in this galaxy, in this universe. So regardless of the unlikelihood, we are here to prove that life did, indeed, on at least one planet, on Earth. This equation doesn't require any outside influence of a supernatural for life to occur. The signs of life through out the universe seem to support the Drake equation, but as we only have one source planet of life, that is a bit disingenuous. But in The Milky way we are looking now with the Kepler Space observatory to find other planets that could support life.
But it is not beyond reason or even probability. It is somewhat amazing to me how the critics of evolution will point out the “impossibility” of DNA or RNA from forming in the hostile environments of ancient Earth but have no problem with saying that man was scooped up from the ground, like so much kitty litter, and then a god blew on it and it magically came alive. Science can offer such evidence of life making processes as the experiment to show how these building blocks may have formed.
Creationists counter with, “because the Bible says so,” and “Scientific experiments that point the way to origins using natural processes are wrong and miss the fundamentals. God made life by speaking it into existence.”
The hurdle , that the nucleic acid had to over come to use amino acids and proteins to carry genetic information, is low compared to the “Supernatural to Natural Transference Device” hurdle that is “required” for immaterial things to become material. If I was to gamble on these two outcomes, even bet my life on it, I would take the long term evolution train every time.
I have heard an Intelligent Design advocate ask a question. [Isn't it true that the basic amino acids required to form DNA are not able to form in the primitive Earth?] This is an area of ongoing research . And while an answer is yet to be gained, there is an understanding of the process that these elements could come together using several possible models. The Miller-Urey experiment, in 1952, is well known for using the gases present in the young Earth, based upon conditions determined at that time, forming basic amino acids under laboratory conditions that are needed for life.
One of the best things about science is that not knowing an answer doesn't end the process. It encourages it. So science and the Theory of Evolution do not have all the answers. That isn't the purpose of science. The idea is , that with reason and study, a more plausible idea of The Universe develops out of factual information than from fictional stories that try to match the dots in the sky with exotic sounding stories.
There is a concept that I use often with people that try to exert their fictional (religious) view of reality as the right one. It can not be conclusively proven that the world of the movie "The Matrix" is not the reality in which we live in. As far as evidence, it is as unfalsifiable as almost every other religion. Any proof that would be offered to counter that view of that reality is in itself the proof that it is part of The Matrix, and thus supports the dogma of one who might believe such a story. The same is true with most other religious dogma.
This whole idea of faith and belief is something that helps support the prejudice of human beings , that we are special and life is unique. As I stated before, the mass of material in The Universe is not in support of life at all. The largest mass of known elements in The Universe are hydrogen and helium. These make up the fuel of the stars. Then when reducing down to planets, we can take an example for our own solar neighborhood that most of the planets are gas giants, made up of the same two elements and other trace elements including metallic hydrogen. However, life, which is made up of some of the more rare elements has most say in how The Universe is viewed on Earth. Life views itself as special and the rest of The Universe as worthless or of little value.
This relates to the seminar that Dawkins gave on "The Purpose of Purpose" which I attended in Norman, Oklahoma. What is the purpose of a bird's wing or a cave or a green field? Dawkins used the terms, archeo-purpose and neo-purpose. Archeo-purpose relates to what an item is for that is naturally occurring. Such as mentioned a birds wing or a certain color or sent of a flower. Evolutionarily, a birds wing has no purpose it serves a function of flight that was the path that natural selection took for the class of animals aves. As we well know not all aves, have the capacity of flight. [thanks to Morgan Freeman] But the wing of an aircraft is created for a specific purpose. That purpose can be to transport people from one location to another location through the air. This human created wing would be called a neo-purpose item.
So humans determine what is the purpose of items we make and because we have the capacity to reason and associate form and function of items and cause and effect of events, we make assumptions of the purpose of the things that natural has in it. This assigned purpose from humans mixed with faith would lead people to have a prejudiced view of the purpose of a naturally occurring event. Such as earthquakes, hurricanes and other natural events. This complemented with man's ability to make up stories and manipulate people and nature makes events seem as if they have a purpose and even a divine one some would say.
Having such a view would tend to minimize nature, which is the dominate force in The Universe, in favor for a supernatural perspective, which is a totally make believe view of The Universe. The steps that would follow with this view, are ones that logic and reason wouldn't be compatible.
If one believes that cows, chickens and pigs are here by a divine purpose that serves man, one would act according to the belief and not see them as co-evolutionary partners but their meat to serve the nutritional needs of mankind. If one overlooks nature and decides that a place exists in the sky were everyone can go to live after they die. [what does that mean?] Then instead of having a purely natural point of view, this will diminish fact based concepts for imagination based concepts of The Universe. Understanding the concepts of archeo-purpose and neo-purpose can greatly work to clarify our place in The Universe.
To ask such questions as, “What is God's purpose for your life? What Would Jesus Do? Why are we here? And other questions that look to a divine for answers, fail to recognize the basic reality of life. This reality is regardless it is for any life period to occur anywhere it has happened. As unlikely as this makes life to occur naturally, the unlikelihood increases even more so, and with increased improbability, if one supposes a god did it. This concept doesn't disprove a god but the evidence for the known nature of how The Universe works versus the addition of the unknown supernatural, while highly improbable, is still the most likely and more probable answer for life , the universe and everything. [xix]
To explain, As an atheist, my view on origins is based upon the ideas presented by astronomy, physics, chemistry, biology, geology, and other science disciplines. I will be early to admit my limited understanding of advance concepts of science but I do have a healthy overview of the concepts and I can reasonably listen to lectures and seminars by professionals in the fields and generally understand their ideas. With this in mind, I find the evidence that is presented in science and nature to be the most reasonable and reliable answers for how nature works.
The answers rely upon observations, testing, and established scientific method to come up with the steps of how The Universe is formed. Are all the answers there? No. Do I understand all the answers that are there? No. But I understand enough to have a clear picture. Like a mosaic picture of ancient times, if your are too close you can miss the big picture. So I have a big picture understanding of nature. I would charge that anyone that claims to have all the answers is surely a person to be avoided.
Then there is the view of the supernatural, that it has all the answers. [This in itself should make everyone suspect. After all, no one likes a know it all, or a smart ass.] Divine answers to natural questions not only dismiss actual knowledge but but provide answers to question that science may not have answers to yet. Not to mention those adherents that profess to tell their followers the location of an actual Heaven or Hell, Garden of Eden, Nirvana, Shangri-La, Shamballa and so forth. After all if you want people to trust you enough to place their supernatural life in your hands then you better have all the answers to their tough questions. Plus if you are trusted, they are more likely to hand over their hard earned money.
So is science hard to understand? You bet it is. But it is even more difficult to understand why people will believe an answer that only proof of concept is that a person has faith that it is true. Take all the science in the world and a devout adherent can replace it all with faith. Faith and no proof whatsoever. I believe it was James Randi that said that you take the technology of Today back 50 years and it looks like magic. As of this writing that would 1959. Just on the dawn of the space race with the Soviet Union. The idea that you could take a picture with a devise as small as a credit card, call virtually anyone around the world directly, hold millions of songs on a small metal box and play them through tiny ear pieces, To be able to find answers to questions to just about anything in seconds without having to look it up in an encyclopedia or go to a research library is a thing of science fiction 50 years ago.
But there were people then that were not willing to rely upon the best the world had to offer and worked to turn science fiction into reality. Today, the James Bond tracking system seems quite quaint and antiquated for today. Granted the space age laser weapons have not become a hand held commodity but the non-lethal force shock guns certainly have come a long way and are an object that would have been viewed as magic or out of this world at the time. Other such common place items now such as music and TV from space on our home and personal entertainment devices, The ability to record and playback video on a card no bigger then a postage stamp. Physical letters becoming almost extinct as a means of communication, being replace by digital communication with both live and delayed messages.
As humans, we can accept advances in things we do not understand as long as there is a socialize reason to accept such things. Better house cleaners, more entertainment, faster food, more information, cleaner hands, longer lasting tires and more as long as these things improve the quality of life and do not touch upon the reasons for life. For that area doesn't belong in the area of technology but in the area of the lack of technology. Faith needs no upgrading, there is no need to have a “New and improved” faith, of a even “longer lasting” faith as faith just wants to be accepted as simply as it can. Once faith has found a nice home it will grow and grow into other areas like an ivy vine that will cover a yard and wall. Where nothing can be see without it being seen through the ivy vines.
Areas of live that prior to faith were unrelated such as working and sexuality are now joined in the ever entwining vines of faith. Faith consumes reason. As it does it dulls the senses and makes reasonable people reject facts and act upon superstition.
This is to say that the no matter how amazing science proves the facts of The Universe, the idea that a god created The Universe makes the concept of that creator even more complex than the natural solution. In the future the Large Hadron Collider [LHC] and the remaining function of the Hubble Space Telescope and the other space research devices and the thousand of hard working researchers and scientists will shine more light on the origins of The Universe. But there will not be a purpose found in any of this.
To this end I would even assert further that the God delusion is a soft name for the hysteria that the religious suffer. Religion reminds me of Douglas Adams' Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal [xx]. If you do not know what that is, feel free to read his book or any other the other mediums which are "rarely done well."

[xvii] http://nobelprize.org/educational_games/medicine/dna_double_helix/readmore.html
[xviii] http://www.setileague.org/general/drake.htm
[xix] Thank you, Douglas Adams
[xx] http://hitchhikers.wikia.com/wiki/Ravenous_Bugblatter_Beast_of_Traal


Coming in the next posting: God in Chaos: LARRY KING AND THE GHOSTS HUNTERS part twelve